Army Records WW2

I have written away and received my Father's Army Records (John Burman), his parent regiment was the Royal Medical Corp.(stationed in Fort George, up in Inverness Shire) but he joined the Commandos when they called for Volunteers in 1940 (I think). He took part in the St Nazaire Raid and went overseas and fought the Japanese in Malaya and Burma for the rest of the war.
In the records that the Army sent me, it states nowhere that he was in the Commandos, but records the Theatre of war and his promotions. One reading the record would assume that he served in the RAMC all through the war?
I was wondering is there another record that would confirm his Commando past? We are very proud of in our family of his service, and would like to pass any information on to my sons.
I really would appreciate any advice in this matter.
Joan

Hi Joan

I have also applied for my father's Army records, one of the forms which is numbered B200B actually stated his posting to No1 Commando. When you received your father's records did you get a copy of this form, I have attached a copy of the relevant portion of this document.
Also you could try contacting the St Nazaire Society to see if they have got a roll of names of the personnel who took part in this Operation. You mention that your father went overseas to fight the Japanese, my father's unit No1 Army Commando along with No5 and No's 42 and 44 Royal Marine Commando were formed in to No3 Commando Brigade and were sent to India / Burma to fight the Japanese. Perhaps he was with one of these units? One of the problems involved with trying to research a particular person's involvement with the Commandos is that they were on permanent loan from thier parent regiments, who continued to pay thier wages throughout thier service with the Commandos, so consequently there is often no mention of the name Commando in army documentation.
Do you have any photos of your father from the war years, as this could possibly help to identify his unit. Can you remember ever seeing his Commando Service Certificate? I have attached a copy of my father's cert just in case you're not sure what this document looks like.

Good luck Andy

Thanks Andy

I have never seen a Commando Certificate, but that is exactly what I was looking for. I checked with the information that I was sent in 2001 and the sheet I have was typed information, a summary of his service but no B200B form. They had his first name down as James instead of John but the rest of the personal info was correct.
On the record it talks of him passing a Trade Test as Nursing Orderly CI in 1944, and his postings always seemed to be to Field Ambulance units. He was in India and Burma etc. from 1942 to 1946, he finished with rank of Captain (would a Nursing Orderly be a Captain?).

I do have 2 Certificates:

Mentioned in Dispatches in recognition of Gallant and Distinguished Services in Burma and on the Eastern frontier of India during the period 16th August 1944 to 14th Nov. 1944 (London Gazette 27th Sept. 1945) - again R.A.M.C

For Meritorious Service Against The Japanese In The War 1939-1945
Army number, Rank - Captain, and Name- J.G. Burman R.A.M.C.

He was presented with a Japanese Samurai Sword that was surrendered, by the H.Q. 74th Indian Infantry Brigade - Malaya, 3 Nov. 1945

At the top of the certificate was a dark blue pennant with a green square with a black ace of spades in it. There was also a white 94 in the pennant.
My Mum thought that the Ace of Spades was the symbol of the Commando Unit. Would that be a clue?

I think that my Dad served in N. 1 Commando and perhaps N. 3, my Mother said that Units were merged with one another. She died last year and unfortunately didn't have a lot of Documents.
Should I write away to the Govnt. Records and ask for that form again?

Joan

Hello Joan
Two answers to your queries here.

The green square and the Ace of Spades symbol is the sign of the "25th Indian Division ....this is the division that 3 Commando Brigade were attached to in Burma.

When you say attached to No 1 Commando and also No 3 ...I think you are making the common mistake of confusing the Commando Unit number with that of the Commando Brigade number.
E.G. No 1 commando were part of No 3 Commando Brigade that saw action in Burma/ the other units in this Brigade were No 5 No 42 and No 44 Commando.

I hope this helps a little.

Regards

John M

Joan,

There are a few interesting points in there:

As mentioned,the badge is that of the 25th Indian Infantry Division, of which the 1st & 3rd Commando formed a part. (As part of 3 Commando Brigade) - I will stand corrected on 3 Commando though, as I dont know the source of the burmastar entry.

Take a look at this link from the burmastar website:

http://www.burmastar.org.uk/25thind.htm

I think you need to write to the army again - when you do so ask for photocopies of the record, or you'll get a typed abbreviation.

I will try and dig out the dates of the Third Arakan Campaign, see if they match the dates you mentioned.

Also, the 25th were recorded as taking the surrender of the japanese, but I think it was in kuala lumpur (not sure where that is!)

Regards

Pete

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 31/03/2009 20:37:46

Ignore the 3 Commando reference, I think its a typo on the burmastar site, should say 5.

I think the 94 has some significance, looks like a particular unit number.

This si the wiki entry for the 25th, kuala lumpur is in Malaya!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25th_Infantry_Division_(India)

74th Indian Infantry Brigade was a part of the 25th indian Infantry Division.

cheers

Pete

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 31/03/2009 23:59:18

Hi Joan

I have recently been in contact with the Historical Disclosures Section of the Army Personnel Centre in Glasgow, to try and obtain a colour copy of the afore mentioned B200b form. The person who dealt with my application was very helpful indeed and I have attached her contact details should you wish to enquire about obtaining your father's actual Army records. The cost of obtaining these is only £30 and the procedure is quite straight forward, I have scanned and attached the two forms that you will have to fill in in order to give you an idea of what is required.

Cheers Andy

Thank you everyone for the advice and help, especially Andy for your your scans of documents.
Pete your information on the Burma Star site was very helpful, I know that Dad did fight in the Arakan because I often heard him talk about it. I do have his Burma Star Medal. He was also caught in the Admin Box, when they were cut off by the Japanese. He told us, their Commander called the Officers together and told them they were surrounded with little hope, but that they would fight on, and then said "Gentlemen I give you the Queen" and they all drank a Toast. Quite unflappable!
And John thank you for the information on the black pennant with the green square with the Ace of Spades as the symbol of the 25th Indian Division. It is a little confusing with the Divisions and Brigades, but I think you are probably right, he may have been in the 3rd Commando Brigade at that time.
I am certainly going to write away again and try and get some more information about his record, maybe a photocopy this time. I just had a typed summary before, but because my Mum signed the papers they did'nt charge anything, which was nice. This time I will have to pay the fee, but that's OK if I learn something new.
I will certainly let everyone know the outcome.
Thanks again
Joan

I have a similar problem. I have obtained my father's records but there is no mention of commando activity. He was with the RAOC, and according to his records he was with them throughout, although there does seem to be a gap in the information. Did volounteers retain their original regiment? From the records I know he was posted to Suez and was injured in North Africa and his sign off was in Austria in 1946, but there is a gap of unknown detail. I know he was in Italy and said he was with the partisans for a time, returning home speaking fairly good Italian. If only he had given us more information when he was alive.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 01/10/2009 17:49:51

Hi

Yes each Commando volunteer was in effect on loan from their original or parent regiment who also continued to pay their wages. The Commandos were not that popular with the regular Army, due to the fact that they had to pay for the privilege of having some of their best men siphoned off! If you examine many Commando group photos you will notice that they are all wearing berets, however you will also notice that they have retained the cap badge of their parent regiment, in my father's case this was the RWF (Royal Welch Fusiliers). I think that certain units such as No.2 did in fact produce their own (litterally - in some cases from canteen cutlery!) cap badge, for officers a dagger flanked by two letter S's and just a dagger for all other ranks. The greatest punishment for a Commando volunteer would be, to be RTU'd or "Returned To Unit" ie his parent regiment.

Cheers Andy

Hi Andy,

Thank you for your quick response. Your information has helped a great deal in trying to understand my dad's records. As I have only just received them, it is going to take me some time to absorb and understand them especially because of all of the abreviations. After that, the next step will be his medals. So still a long way to go!

Thanks again.

Christine