Service records and documents: George Norton Barnes Part 2 Royal Marine Commandos

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 22/09/2012 21:05:19

Rather unexpectedly, we have received my late grandfathers service records from the Royal Marines and Army. Taking only a few weeks, not the 6 months+ we expected.
A very nice surprise indeed !

The Army records were posted here, where the discussion continues.

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoForum/posts/list/3563.page

A big thank you to everyone for helping with the above, by sharing the records I hope in some small way it helps others, or is just interesting !

I've learnt a little more from the Army records, and hope to learn more about these Royal Marine records.

The initial questions about his Royal marine service are:

1. As a family we thought he joined up in Bristol around 16, his records show in joining in Bristol on 24th March 1942 which means he was 18 years, 7 months, 14 days. I confirmed the other day with my grandmother that he always said he joined around 16 and half years old, I heard something like this from him myself. What age would people have been called up ? George was not in a reserved occupation, he lived with his Aunt who had a corner shop in Bristol.

2. on Form R23 in the wounds box I can read the word "Weymouth" which is the hospital he said he stayed in after being shot in the hand.

3. on Form R23 in the examinations box I can read 26/4/44 something about firstaid.

There is no no mention of anything else, such as being parachute trained

On the company conduct form, I see George is moved to 8 RM Battalion, which ties in with the attached photo showing a VIII on his left Arm. Older family recently told me while the photo was taken at his Dad's house in Weymouth, just after George being on the Dieppe raid. The webbing, rifle and hat actually belonged to his brother in the home guard. Just under his steel helmet you can make out something like a beret.

Now I have found no mention of 8th Battalion at Dieppe, however on a later form I will attach it shows George going to A/40 Cmdo but on 12 Oct. George mentioned Dieppe many times, not much detail mostly about "being on ships at the back charged with going after the ships in the harbour", being with some US Rangers, and landing on the beach near cliffs but only very briefly. He certainly didn't like to talk about it. I wonder if it was his first raid.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 23/09/2012 17:59:04

Here are the remaining records we received.

Dieppe
First one shows George being with 8 Bn Royal marines on 12 May 1942 and being transferred to A/40 Royal Marine commandos on 12/10/1942.

Many times George talked about Dieppe, but mostly in the sense he was there and it wasn't at all nice. No more than he was with some US Rangers and they didn't get much further than just touching the beach, and something about them going after the boats in the harbour. This sounds like A Commando, but this record does not show him with A commando at the right date. Could he have been attached to A Commando ? Later
he transfers to A Commando rather than 41 Commando, could this hint that had volunteered earlier for Commando duties ? He also told me that "we were Commandos when we got to Achnacarry" meaning they had been doing raids and training before going to the finishing school.

Hospitals
George is in hospital a few times. We knew he had been shot in the left hand and was in Weymouth hospital, but he would never say where/when it happened.

Safe crackers
Another constant story was working with "safe crackers" going on raids from the isle of white which were "nasty business" and people didn't do it for long. Men were assigned to act as body guards for the safe crackers on the raids.

Commenced 3/ rate of pay
What does this mean ? Demoted ? Due to being wounded ?

Sgt
George claimed he had been demoted from Sgt. My nan confirmed she saw this in his Army pay book, but neither the Army nor Marines record shows anything.

Overseas service.
Nothing is shown, however you can see on 25/2/1943 he is arrested. On the field conduct sheet it shows this date is Capetown. This confirms the story he told of while in Capetown, a group of them missed the troopship heading to north Africa and they were confined to barracks. Either before or after this date he claimed they spent 3 months in South Africa and did body guard duty for General smuts, "taking tea with him". No mention of this, but no
mention of him getting to SouthAfrica or serving a year in North africa as is written in the Army records.

No mention of Sicily, where George claimed they were parachuted into the sea by accident, but the Army record mentions Sicily.

No mention of D Day being on an LCT, but seems he was with "portsmouth division" at around the time of DDay

Then he transfers to the Army "due to flat feet" and soon is back with Commando units.

George also would tell us about going on raids with Canoes, sometimes in large groups, other times from submarines. But he never said exactly where this occurred, but did mention Burma. Certainly no mention of this on his record

The anecdotes George told over the years were constant, over the years I got him to add a few details. George Norton Barnes was certainly not a bragger, if anything he always down played things, and never associated with any parades and not much with the Commando association as far as I can make out. And George claimed on arriving back in the UK in 1946, he never left the country again, joking that "people were always shooting at him last time he went abroad"

Any ideas ? The service record looks to be missing a page. and lots of detail. but broadly confirms the locations he mentioned.

I have read that yur grandfather enlisted on the 24th March 1942 at Bristol, i was looking through my grandfathers papers and he enlisted on the 16th March 1942 at Fort Cumberland in Portsmouth after making his way to the Bristol careers office. small world eh.

Mark,

Well done on getting the records.

You mention safe-cracking etc. Did you ever see the recent documentry on Dieppe, where it claimed the actual raid was a front for a pinch raid to secure the latest Enigma etc equipment and was the brainchild of 007 writer Ian Fleming? Here's a link which mentions the Canadian researcher behind it...

http://www.globalnews.ca/feature/6442694158/story.html

'During the Second World War, Ian Fleming ? the legendary author of the James Bond spy series novels ? acted as a personal assistant to Britain?s head of naval intelligence, Admiral John Godfrey.

He, along with other naval intelligence specialists, created the No. 30 Commando or the 30 Assault Unit (30AU) ? a team of special commandos that were put into the Dieppe operation under the unit name No. 40 Royal Marine Commando.

According to the newly-discovered files, while Fleming and the 30 AU were looking to hit various German vessels that were in Dieppe?s harbour, their primary target was the German headquarters, located at Hotel Moderne near the main harbour in Dieppe.'

My Grandad who you are aware of, wasn't at Dieppe as far as I am aware, but he knew a lot who were. According to my Dad he befriended a lot of the Canadians who I think he met in Iceland, but I can't be sure. I've got a photo of some of those he met at my parents house.

Anyway, I hope this is of some help.

Regards,

Ian

For completeness, link to pictures from what remains of Dalditch.
http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoForum/posts/list/4033.page#14853

Aloha!

I'm an American researcher who stumbled across this post while looking to fill out some information for a photo I came across and scanned in on my last trip to the US National Archives in Washington DC. The photo is here and the caption read (sorry for the all-caps, this is OCR):

ACTIVITIES ABOARD USS HORACE A. BASS (APD-124), OPERATING IN N.E. KOREA.

GEORGE BARNES, BRITISH ROYAL MARINE COMMANDO, POSES WITH WARM GREETINGS FOR THE ENEMY IN NORTH KOREA.

I was hoping to confirm if this is the same George Barnes you are related to and inquire as to whether or not you have a copy of this photograph.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 11/02/2015 19:40:00

Hi ResearcherAtLarge, thanks very much for posting.

I looked at the very clear photo link you kindly provided, and sadly thats not my grandfather, nor another relation. My George had left the Army in 1947, lucky for him not having to be in another war.

While visiting the Royal Marines Museum in Portsmouth, UK, they also had a photo of this George Barnes, so perhaps one day somebody will encounter your post.

Thanks again for posting.

Update.

I just checked on the photos I took at the Royal Marines Museum back in 2013, and the musuem has the very same photo of George Barnes.
The description draws attention to the fact that 41 Commando operated with the US navy at this time, and used American uniforms, equipment and weapons, only the Green beret being retained.